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update surprised by hope

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Joe Carstairs
2025-05-04 08:50:34 +01:00
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--- ---
title: Surprised By Hope title: Surprised By Hope
description: I've been working on my resurrection doctrine. Here's where I've got to. description:
I've been working on my resurrection doctrine. Here's where I've got to.
pubDate: 2025-05-02 pubDate: 2025-05-02
--- ---
@@ -10,28 +11,27 @@ happens to people after they die.
This might come as a surprise to some people who know me. Lots of people have This might come as a surprise to some people who know me. Lots of people have
solid ideas about what happens to people after they die. For different people, solid ideas about what happens to people after they die. For different people,
those ideas are very different. Here in Scotland, many people believe that those ideas are very different. Here in Scotland, many people believe that death
death is a final end. Many more believe that death marks a physical, and is a final end. Many more believe that death marks a physical, and perhaps also
perhaps also a spiritual, reunion with the rest of the universe, as the matter a spiritual, reunion with the rest of the universe, as the matter of your body
of your body begins to be slowly digested and recycled: hence why ever more begins to be slowly digested and recycled: hence why ever more people are opting
people are opting to be cremated rather than buried in one piece. Other to be cremated rather than buried in one piece. Other minorities believe in an
minorities believe in an immortal soul that goes to some other place - be it immortal soul that goes to some other place - be it heaven, hell, purgatory,
heaven, hell, purgatory, nirvana or reincarnation. I belong to the Christian nirvana or reincarnation. I belong to the Christian community, which is supposed
community, which is supposed to have clear answers on these questions passed to have clear answers on these questions passed down from ancient times, and
down from ancient times, and people who know me know that I think hard about people who know me know that I think hard about doctrines. So it may be a
doctrines. So it may be a surprise that amongst all the convictions which surprise that amongst all the convictions which people have all around me, and
people have all around me, and amongst all my own convictions on other topics, amongst all my own convictions on other topics, I hadn't the faintest clue what
I hadn't the faintest clue what happens to people after they die. happens to people after they die.
If you are surprised, let me surprise you some more: I am of no fixed opinion If you are surprised, let me surprise you some more: I am of no fixed opinion on
on a whole range of really important philosophical and theological topics, a whole range of really important philosophical and theological topics, from the
from the existence of the soul to the purpose of sex, from the nature of the existence of the soul to the purpose of sex, from the nature of the sacraments
sacraments to the metaphysics of the mind. But late last year, I set myself to the metaphysics of the mind. But late last year, I set myself some New Year's
some New Year's resolutions to address some of these questions. Not, by any resolutions to address some of these questions. Not, by any means, to decide
means, to decide once and for all the end of the matter: just to form a well once and for all the end of the matter: just to form a well-informed opinion.
informed opinion. Sometimes staying quiet isn't good enough: I'm aiming to Sometimes staying quiet isn't good enough: I'm aiming to rectify my silence on
rectify my silence on these topics, because I think these topics are too these topics, because I think these topics are too important to ignore.
important to ignore.
And one of the issues I picked out was this very issue: what happens to people And one of the issues I picked out was this very issue: what happens to people
after they die? To that end, Neil recommended me a book by the conservative after they die? To that end, Neil recommended me a book by the conservative
@@ -54,18 +54,19 @@ half the Nicene Creed.
- We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. - We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen. That's pretty much it. All that I need to stress, to avoid under-stating Amen. That's pretty much it. All that I need to stress, to avoid under-stating
Wright's view, is that he specifically thinks that physical creation, Wright's view, is that he specifically thinks that physical creation, including
including our bodies, will be transformed into a new kind of physicality, our bodies, will be transformed into a new kind of physicality, including new
including new kinds of physical bodies for you and me, and that the 'world to kinds of physical bodies for you and me, and that the 'world to come' means that
come' means that heaven and earth - which he regards as God's physical space heaven and earth - which he regards as God's physical space and our physical
and our physical space - will be united. space - will be united.
He contrasts this orthodox view with several views common today amongst He contrasts this orthodox view with several views common today amongst
Christians, some of which have even been muddled up with the traditional orthodoxy: Christians, some of which have even been muddled up with the traditional
orthodoxy:
- 'Jesus was raised to new life, spiritually, like a ghost.' - 'Jesus was raised to new life, spiritually, like a ghost.'
- 'Jesus literally ascended into the sky, as if he had an invisible jetpack: - 'Jesus literally ascended into the sky, as if he had an invisible jetpack: and
and that's where he is now.' that's where he is now.'
- 'The Christian hope is that we will go to be united with God in heaven after - 'The Christian hope is that we will go to be united with God in heaven after
we die.' we die.'
- 'The Christian hope is that we will be snatched up to heaven at the rapture - 'The Christian hope is that we will be snatched up to heaven at the rapture
@@ -79,12 +80,12 @@ Christians, some of which have even been muddled up with the traditional orthodo
only works we should care about now are "saving souls".' only works we should care about now are "saving souls".'
I am happy to admit that I have often been guilty of most of these heresies. The I am happy to admit that I have often been guilty of most of these heresies. The
only ones I've never been tempted by are the 'rapture' view, and the thing only ones I've never been tempted by are the 'rapture' view, and the thing about
about the invisible jetpack. the invisible jetpack.
Wright has not definitively put any of these ideas to rest for me. _Surprised By Hope_ Wright has not definitively put any of these ideas to rest for me. _Surprised By
is just not that kind of book. It's not a treatise. It's actually quite light Hope_ is just not that kind of book. It's not a treatise. It's actually quite
on substantial argument in favour of Wright's position. Wright's main light on substantial argument in favour of Wright's position. Wright's main
achievement for me, isn't to convince me that he's right, but that his position achievement for me, isn't to convince me that he's right, but that his position
is a good starting point, a good place from which I should need to be convinced. is a good starting point, a good place from which I should need to be convinced.
@@ -92,44 +93,43 @@ He does this chiefly by showing that his view is the consensus view of the New
Testament. (He claims to be showing it is the consensus view of 'the early Testament. (He claims to be showing it is the consensus view of 'the early
Church', but he never presents much evidence outside the New Testament, so I'm Church', but he never presents much evidence outside the New Testament, so I'm
being charitable by restricting his claim to the New Testament authors.) Say being charitable by restricting his claim to the New Testament authors.) Say
what you like about Scriptural authority; if Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and what you like about Scriptural authority; if Mark, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul
Paul all were convinced something was apostolic teaching, you'd better well all were convinced something was apostolic teaching, you'd better well take it
take it seriously. seriously.
If you want convincing, take a look for yourself. Some of the key New If you want convincing, take a look for yourself. Some of the key New Testament
Testament texts are John 5; Acts 17:30-32, 24:14-16; 1 Cor 15, 16:22; 2 Cor 4-5; texts are John 5; Acts 17:30-32, 24:14-16; 1 Cor 15, 16:22; 2 Cor 4-5; Rom 6, 8;
Rom 6, 8; Col 3:1-4; Eph 1:10; 1 Thess 4:14-18 and of course Rev 21-22. Col 3:1-4; Eph 1:10; 1 Thess 4:14-18 and of course Rev 21-22.
You can also try convincing yourself that this is coherent with the Old You can also try convincing yourself that this is coherent with the Old
Testament hope, by looking at Isa 11, Dan 7, Ps 2, and having another Testament hope, by looking at Isa 11, Dan 7, Ps 2, and having another look at
look at the assumptions behind Paul's behaviour in Acts 24:14-16. the assumptions behind Paul's behaviour in Acts 24:14-16.
The only significant problem texts I've found for Wright's view are 2 Cor 4-5 The only significant problem texts I've found for Wright's view are 2 Cor 4-5
and Rev 21-22. In 2 Cor 4-5, Paul seems to plainly assert that we will have to and Rev 21-22. In 2 Cor 4-5, Paul seems to plainly assert that we will have to
leave the body in order to face the judgement seat of Christ, and which makes leave the body in order to face the judgement seat of Christ, and which makes no
no apology for the assertion that, even though Christ has reconciled us to Go apology for the assertion that, even though Christ has reconciled us to God, we
, we will still have to face judgement for our deeds - which seems immediately will still have to face judgement for our deeds - which seems to justify the
to justify the supposedly un-Biblical doctrine of purgatory. If you assume infamously un-Biblical doctrine of purgatory. If you assume that Paul's writings
that Paul's writings express a completely consistent view, however, you will express a completely consistent view, however, you will have routes out; in
have routes out; in particular, you could look at the language of Rom 6 and 8. particular, you could look at the language of Rom 6 and 8. Large chunks of
Large chunks of Paul's letter to the Romans also suggest, if taken out of Paul's letter to the Romans also suggest, if taken out of context, that we will
context, that we will have to leave our bodies behind, and that even those have to leave our bodies behind, and that even those reconciled through Christ
reconciled through Christ will face judgement for their deeds - except that will face judgement for their deeds - except that key verses contradict both of
key verses contradict both of those views. Clearly, that's not what Paul meant those views. Clearly, that's not what Paul meant in Romans; so, you might argue,
in Romans; so, you might argue, it's not what he meant in 2 Cor either: it's not what he meant in 2 Cor either: provided you assume that Paul's writings
provided you assume that Paul's writings present a consistent view. (If Paul present a consistent view. (If Paul changed his mind, no explanation is
changed his mind, no explanation is necessary why Rom and 2 Cor seem to be necessary why Rom and 2 Cor seem to be inconsistent: they could actually be
inconsistent: they could actually be inconsistent in that case.) inconsistent in that case.)
Meanwhile, in Rev 21-22, John has a vision of a 'new heaven and a new earth, Meanwhile, in Rev 21-22, John has a vision of a 'new heaven and a new earth, for
for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away'. This directly the first heaven and the first earth had passed away'. This directly contradicts
contradicts Wright's emphatic insistence that God's new creation will be Wright's emphatic insistence that God's new creation will be continuous with the
continuous with the first. For Wright, this isn't an academic detail, it's first. For Wright, this isn't an academic detail, it's needed in order to give
needed in order to give us a motive to care for the world we've currently got. us a motive to care for the world we've currently got. Without continuity, he
Without continuity, he fears we'd be right to join those who are content with fears we'd be right to join those who are content with trashing the natural
trashing the natural environment because the whole thing's going to end up in environment because the whole thing's going to end up in fire and brimstone
fire and brimstone anyway. Yet this piece of Revelation seems to permit anyway. Yet this piece of Revelation seems to permit exactly that.
exactly that.
If you were to defend Wright against Revelation, you might point out that If you were to defend Wright against Revelation, you might point out that
Revelation is a literal description of a vision John had, and is therefore not Revelation is a literal description of a vision John had, and is therefore not
@@ -143,50 +143,52 @@ assumption, bring your analysis of the rest of the New Testament to bear.
Whatever you do with the problem texts, it seems clear to me that the Whatever you do with the problem texts, it seems clear to me that the
overwhelming weight of Biblical evidence favours the traditional orthodox overwhelming weight of Biblical evidence favours the traditional orthodox
position over any of the alternatives. Given that, I'm happy to take it as a position over any of the alternatives. Given that, I'm happy to take it as a
starting point as I continue to think about what happens to people after they die. starting point as I continue to think about what happens to people after they
die.
So, I may go back to Neil now, and say - maybe not quite yet 'I have an opinio So, I may go back to Neil now, and say - maybe not quite yet 'I have an
' - but at least 'I know what my working assumptions are.' I know what is the opinion' - but at least 'I know what my working assumptions are.' I know what is
orthodox Christian view: that is, the consensus view of the relevant experts. the orthodox Christian view: that is, the consensus view of the relevant
The consensus view of relevant experts is generally a good place to start. experts. The consensus view of relevant experts is generally a good place to
start.
I still have plenty of concerns, though. Here are my top three quandaries on I still have plenty of concerns, though. Here are my top three quandaries on
this topic now. this topic now.
Firstly, it would be rather unsettling if the orthodox Christian vision for Go Firstly, it would be rather unsettling if the orthodox Christian vision for
's ultimate future popped entirely into existence after the Ascension. The God's ultimate future popped entirely into existence after the Ascension. The
apostles say that their teaching was given to them by the Holy Spirit - but apostles say that their teaching was given to them by the Holy Spirit - but are
are we going to trust our entire doctrine on the future to what a small number we going to trust our entire doctrine on the future to what a small number of
of men claim was told to them by an invisible being behind closed doors? If men claim was told to them by an invisible being behind closed doors? If the
the view of the New Testament authors is trustworthy, then it at the very view of the New Testament authors is trustworthy, then it at the very least
least needs to cohere very well with the Old Testament. The New Testament hope needs to cohere very well with the Old Testament. The New Testament hope should
should be woven deep into the Old Testament promises. I find Genesis, Daniel, be woven deep into the Old Testament promises. I find Genesis, Daniel, Isaiah
Isaiah and the Psalms promising, but I've only gotten skin-deep into comparing and the Psalms promising, but I've only gotten skin-deep into comparing these
these texts to the New Testament: I'd like to go both deeper into these texts, texts to the New Testament: I'd like to go both deeper into these texts, and
and broader across the Old Testament. broader across the Old Testament.
Secondly, I want to hear the opposition in their own words. Wright very openly Secondly, I want to hear the opposition in their own words. Wright very openly
admits that his view is currently a minority opinion even within Christianity, admits that his view is currently a minority opinion even within Christianity,
despite being Christian orthodoxy. Given that is the case, it's reasonable to despite being Christian orthodoxy. Given that is the case, it's reasonable to
expect the opposition to have some good arguments on their side. Wright has expect the opposition to have some good arguments on their side. Wright has not
not presented any strong arguments from opposing views, which makes me suspect presented any strong arguments from opposing views, which makes me suspect not
not that there are no good arguments, but that he has omitted to cover them in that there are no good arguments, but that he has omitted to cover them in his
his short and accessible book. And if there really are no strong arguments short and accessible book. And if there really are no strong arguments against
against the traditional view, then we should expect powerful explanations as the traditional view, then we should expect powerful explanations as to why so
to why so few people accept what apparently they should. few people accept what apparently they should.
Thirdly, I have residual concerns from the metaphysics of mind. I recall from Thirdly, I have residual concerns from the metaphysics of mind. I recall from my
my undergraduate days that continuity is a major concern amongst the relevant undergraduate days that continuity is a major concern amongst the relevant
experts. I think a minority of them even claim that the person who goes to experts. I think a minority of them even claim that the person who goes to sleep
sleep and the person who wakes up again are completely distinct people who and the person who wakes up again are completely distinct people who just so
just so happen to time-share the same body. If continuity is a major problem, happen to time-share the same body. If continuity is a major problem, then it is
then it is a major problem for resurrection doctrine, too, which even in the a major problem for resurrection doctrine, too, which even in the New Testament
New Testament is compared to a kind of sleep, admitting that there is some is compared to a kind of sleep, admitting that there is some kind of
kind of discontinuity between the old body and the resurrection body. Add to discontinuity between the old body and the resurrection body. Add to this the
this the easily observable fact that many Christian bodies have rotted and are easily observable fact that many Christian bodies have rotted and are no longer
no longer suitable for re-animation: their new bodies will have to be suitable for re-animation: their new bodies will have to be physically
physically discontinuous as well as mentally discontinuous with their old discontinuous as well as mentally discontinuous with their old bodies. If I will
bodies. If I will be given a new body, is it metaphysically plausible that the be given a new body, is it metaphysically plausible that the person who inhabits
person who inhabits that body will be the same 'me' that inhabits this body, now? that body will be the same 'me' that inhabits this body, now?
Much love all. As always, answers on a postcard please. Much love all. As always, answers on a postcard please.